Rachelle

December is a month that holds four overlapping religious holidays. (Christmas, Chanucha, Ramadon, and Kuanza... spelling doesn't count). Not to mention the pagan holidays that surround the solstice and the astral houses. So, there are a lot of 'holidays'. (Dec. 25th is a Christian consensus for the date of Jesus' birth, not something found in fact. That season was owned by the pagans for much longer than the codified Christian faith.)

90%???? Doubt that number, especially in the US. Even if so, among those 90% are offended if the term Christmas is used, if the term x-mas is used, if any term is used that isn't their term is used. There will always be, much like the poor, people who are offended by something.

All in all, I like Tossmas but, probably not for the reason the film maker wants me to like it. Oh well, I guess we can add them to the list of the offended.



Rachelle

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monkeylizard

I've developed and affinity for X-Mas myself.

MSYoung

For decades we had a holiday celebration in our largest park called "Christmas On the Prado". For the sake of being PC, that was changed last year to "Holiday Nights".

There has been a veteran's memorial here since WWII that listed all San Diego residents that died in that war, everyone. The center of this is a cross. A self-proclaimed atheist has been fighting the city in court for about ten years now because he said his then four year old daughter was offended.

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Marty

Rachelle

Well now, that is just too dang bad. The use of a cross for symbolism predates Christianity. The war monument predates his brat. You don't change the past to make you more comfortable in the present. You make your present all that you can. What an A$$hat!!!!!!


rlc

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Lmo

Somehow I think that "Gee Daddy, I find that cross really offensive" are really some big words and thoughts for a 4 year old.
I think he was merely misunderstanding her when she was trying to tell him that she had to go peepee or wanted an ice cream cone.
I also think that it was cowardly and second rate of him to try to pin his creepy little cause on his child.
* If he's gonna build a soapbox, he needs to be man enough to step up on it instead of sticking his child up on it.*

MSYoung

Some of his supporters came around about a year ago trying to get it on the ballet so the citizens could vote on it. Almost everybody told him to pound sand. Public opinion is about 95% against him according to the last survey, but surveys don't win court battles. When I was asked to sign it, I asked the person with the petition "if this war memorial offends you so much, why don't you just go buy some dynamite and blow it up?". His response was that the memorial did not offend him, just the cross.

I told him that the cross was around long before Christianity (as Rachelle said) and that the Christians did not invent it. Since it was about this time of year I also told him that December 25 was a pagan holiday long before the Christians arbitrarily picked that day for their holiday. They only picked that day to try to take it from the pagans. I believe it was at least a Wiccan holiday. The guy walked away without saying anything.

Now it really is a pagan holiday with some Christian overtones. A just reward I think. And, no, I am not an atheist. If I have any religious leanings, it would be Spiritualism.

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Rachelle

Religious leanings have nothing to do with it. You stated facts, indisputable facts. Revisionist history is our downfall. You don't have to like the past but, you can't/shouldn't try to change or ignore it. If you do either, then you are doomed to relive it over and over.

When I visited Rome, I came across a monument to the priest that contributed "virgin birth" to the holy doctrine. I don't recall his name or the date ( I have a friend going to Rome in another month. She is going to find it and write it down for me.) But, that was his brain child. That was not part of the original dogma. It was a development that met a need/goal of the church at that time. Fact!

People get very uncomfortable when the facts don't point to a Normal Rockwell pretty picture. I get that. It is a weakness that most folks have.


rlc

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JulianW

It's also down to the "facts" that we each get presented with. Real facts are what we base beliefs (rightly or wrongly) on, a scientist repeats an experiment over and over, he then believes that every time his actions are followed that the same result will happen but the universe is a strange creature and sometimes even the most proven actions will have different results.

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