gwebster

You probably then have a CP1 processor so would have to upgrade to a Pentium II if you went to either Rls 3 or Rls 4. But once you do that, you would be able to keep all of your existing sets (figure out the cost alone to replace all of your sets with Cisco phones let alone upgrading your data infrastructure to provide QoS) with all of their existing functionality (no need to retrain your users) and then still have to ability to migrate to IP where it makes sense.

Ancient1

GWebster: management already called me on this one:


In my mind, there are really two reasons to upgrade:
- the hardware/software platform which you are on is no longer supported. Especially with hardware, you run the risk of not being able to obtain replacement parts which could cause an extended out-of-service condition


"If the hardware is not supported then why buy the software???"

was the question asked to me. How long will this hardware be supported? Does this upgrade path include both software AND hardware? This system we had installed is still less than a year old. I am seeing that by the time it gets to the ripe-old-age of 1... it will be two sofrware revs out of date? Is this a rapid-growth in the software side of Nortel? Will the software always be upgraded 2 or more times a year? Since the software is evolving so rapidly, what should my concerns be about obselete hardware? How soon will all the components have to be replaced since they are not compatable anymore with the newest & greatest software?

gwebster

Historically, Nortel has put out one release of SL-1, Meridian 1, and now Succession software per year (which was why we were up to 25 before starting over again with 3).

Regarding "how long will this hardware be supported", have a look at bulletin P-2004-0166-Global-Rev2. For example, if your 61C system was new on 25.40B, then it is probably a CP4 (NT5D03) processor. That processor will be supported until October 2007 (i.e. another 3 years from now) but the last supported software release is 4.0.

dixiedogger

Guys I dont have all the answers to you questions but I will point a few things out. I am probably one for the few people I know of that have worked extensivly with nortel and cisco. Both have their plus and minus. But most of the things you are whining about is not vendor related.

Quickness of software releases
This is going to be a fact of life. We are right in the middle of an explosion of new telecom technology. There are going to be bugs and enhancments that must be implemented or the vendor will be left behind. I assure you cisco is coming out with releases just as quick as Nortel. If you really want troubles let microsoft start dictating when you have to upgrade as well as all the security issues they bring to the table. That is what I hate the most about Cisco. Their mission critical callmanagers are windows boxes. I hope Nortel and Cisco wake up and get out of bed with Microsoft. At least the succession still runs on vxworks.

Hardware support
Along with the new software eventually comes hardware. As the software gets more demanding eventually older hardware will not support it. Nortel is really good about tring to keep around their hardware for long periods of time. Most of the hardware really sticks around for a long while. Look at the most costly things to chang out shuch as sets. Wedge sets are just now not being supported. They were here for over 25 years. 2000 series have been around for probably 15 or more. Most of what you have to upgrade is processors. Most processors are supported for at least 5 years. Not bad in my opinion. Think how far technology moves in 5 years.
We shall see if these Cisco phones are still supported in 15 years.

What we are seeing and will continue to see it hardware is going to get smaller better cheaper and alot more of your money is tied up in software.

Now to address some specific issues

rustedancient1 if I were in your situation I would definatly go with the upgrade. You are on rls 25 so you should be enrolled in the Upgrade Express program which means it is compleatly free except for labor. So pay 3 grand and do it. If you are not in the Upgrade express thats different I guess. If you want to know what you gain you should read the whats new for succession ntp it will go over everything. I have done over 15 of these upgrades and they have all been painless. I just dont see a good reason not to. If you wait it will certainly cost much more.

Dary
You are in a different situation compleatly. There are 2 main schools of thought on this issue. One is always stay on the current releases the other is buy something and stay there until there is a good reason to move. If you want to be in the first get in this latest program that lets you get every new release for a fixed price as they come out. Sounds like now you are in the ladder. I know for a fact my company still supports almost anything. We still have some rls 18 out there I know. Can you get more TN's no but do you need them. What im getting at is some people buy a car and keep it for 20 years and just maintain it. They don't want to spend the money to get all the new gadgets and some people like getting a new car every 4 or 5 years but they certainly pay more to keep something new all the time. At any rate learn all you can about voip it is the future no matter what vendor you choose.


Rachelle I will almost guarntee this pbx is not going to be phased out any time soon. Will it still be called a pbx? who knows? will it look the same? probably not. I think in the next few years the processors could move compleatly out of the cabnits to a 19 inch rack and there will probably be some type of ethernet gateway that ties in the IPE shelves but I do not see tdm support going away for 15 plus years. I dont know what rls you are on or what hardware you have but unless I was in the upgrade express program or had a compelling reson to upgrade ie. expanding rapitly, need new features etc. I probably would not upgrade for the heck of it.

Chas2002

Here are some other things to consider..

Prologue

There are a number of tangible and intangible reasons to upgrade your Legacy Voice System to VoIP or an IP
Telephony system. A key factor is Nortels migration to IP has placed your Software (more so than your hardware)
on the non-support list - meaning that patches, upgrades, programming support is being faded out and will
eventually end. (Read the bulletin that GW mentions).

Why should you stick with Nortel? The short answer ‘Company Identity’ and a proven track record. Short of
Nortels latest trouble in the accounting sector, I can’t recall any bad ‘Nortel’ press.


Reasons to Upgrade your Voice Communications

Image

Keeping pace with technology is consequential to your companies image. Having a communications infrastructure/architecture that is current sends a message to your clients and your employees - ‘We’re working hard to provide you with the most up-to-date tools’. Be cognizant of the fact that clients take a ‘visual’ read of your company each time they call and/or visit.

Convergence

This term is brought up all the time - seems to be the current ‘buzz’ word. It’s foundation is packet technology -the idea that data is data whether it’s real-time or delayed protocol packets.

An upgrade that embraces convergence opens a lot of doors for your company and brings your company in-line with future technologies.
Convergence also streamlines the learning curve for maintenance, development and deployment of application-rich features.

Unification of Services and Appliances

Think beyond Unified Messaging. A unified platform allows your company to rid itself of ‘proprietary’ shackles. In the near future an IP Phone will be an IP phone (same components - different skin), and of course there are
‘software’ phones. The unified platform also extends past the ‘walls and conduits’ of your company headquarters -allowing your network to grow as your company grows.

Virtual Office

One of the least talked about possibilities-of-use of VoIP is the Virtual Office. If you have symposium - you’ve already realized the power and convenience of having agents logging on at any set and receiving the calls based on how they logged in.

VoIP ‘Virtual’ services will allow employees to have an office IP Phone at home, at a distant hotel - anywhere packets can be processed. Furthermore, the cost - free to minimal. I can envision a day when
your home PC will be a mirror of your office Work Station (virtual nodes) and the physical set may just disappear and be replaced with ‘soft’ phones.

Tools

Server based communications is in effect ‘open architecture’.

• - E-mail/V-mail - You’ll be able to connect and check your email/vmail at the touch of a button.
  - DB Access - Database access on demand (with authentication) will allow your employees to access any database to view and/or modify data.
  - Alerts - Multi-cast broadcasting is a great tool. You could send notices to all connected users.
  - Call Center (Contact Center) technologies in a unified platform.

Decision Phase

The decision phase of VoIP includes voice quality (QoS), reliability, features, application integration, service/support, and upgrade cost.

ROI (Return on Investment)

How do you measure ROI for VoIP? Once a decision has been made to migrate to VoIP technology, ROI can be measured by several factors;

• - Toll Charge Cost Reduction. Especially between company properties that utilize a VPN.
  - Central Office Resource Cost Reduction. Networked systems and VPN communication paths reduce the number of dedicated ‘PSTN’ circuits. These paths now become a resource available to the entire network (all nodes).
  - MAC activity Cost Reduction. Deployment of new ‘phones’ is software driven and Remote Access allows most deployments to be handled from any point on the network.
  - Voice Network Management and Administration Cost Reduction. A converged infrastructure leads to a converged IT department. Management and administration of the network is streamlined and a reductin in cost will follow.

Finally - We are in the RFP phase of upgrading our M81C 23.55 to Succession. My boss, of course, was 'sticker' shocked, but I pointed out that it's an investment - when the cost is spread over 5 years and the above ROI's are taken into consideration - it will pay for itself.

Chas2002

Fletch

Interesting insight on things Dixie. Stay tuned, don't touch that dial! :wink:

__________________
Fletch
Nortel Emergency Services PLM

For more on Nortel E911 Solutions on the web:
http://nortel.com/e911

Check out this month's E911 Talk podcast at Nortel E911 Talk Podcasts

dixiedogger

It just makes sense that things will go that way but I hope Nortel starts getting a little mor robust with their servers, processors, whatever they call them. I would like to see some DC power options, dual power supplies, dual mirrored nic cards and more raid support. The DC power option is a must for many of our customers it is much more reliable. Not that AC units themselvs are not reliable but UPS failures cause alot of issues for us but that DC power plant is rock solid.

kasch

I agree with DD, we have an Opt 81C, 5 Opt 11C's, and Aspect ACD and a Mitel SX 200 in a LAB.
I haven't seen the Nortel's crashing without a reason. The Aspect ACD, the Winset server needs to be re started every once in a while (NT server 4.0).
Trying to implement a test Call manager a few years ago didn't work out bacause of several network, DNS and DHCP problems.
I also can imagine the problems involved by having a Wintel platform as the base of your "PBX".
My thoughts abot eventual problems:
1. The admin and the users need to be retrained or worse, even replaced.
2. Nortel provided good and solid resolutions so far and there is one point of contact.
3. Network security and bandwidth management is probably the most significant factor for a successful VoIP implementation.
4. How many PBX administartors or -installaer is familiar with IP networking?
5. Companies signing up for a "plain VoIP solution" may not be able to implement without considering a real LAN / WAN upgrade, i. e. spending a significant amount of money (both, one time and recurring).

If there are board members having a CISCO call manager implemented please let me know what your expirience is.

Thank you

czach

Fantastic discussion, so I'll hop in here.

I'm the IT manager who has just been charged with looking at our Meridian 1 61C system. We just put a big set of brakes on the Cisco upgrade (those phones are expensive and have no real security) and are now looking at keeping our 61C and dragging it into the 20th century.

Big question is what can you do with these things? Can one replace the 3 boxes of 16 port digital cards with a single box of 64 port cards? Has technology improved in the last 10 years? Can one simply replace the 68060 CPU with something newer and if so what (I saw ref to Pentium II, that would be nice to get us off the Motorola code base).

I guess the root question is what can one do to shine one of these boxes up without having to go out and buy a whole crate of new parts. Migrate it up to last for a few years, then go IP telephony in a big way.

Thanks!
Chris