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Old 09-19-2006, 02:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
BobTheMighty
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Cool Replacing a Dinosaur system

Howdy folks,

This is my first time dealing with a phone system, though I have the generic idea how everything goes together. The phone system in place is a "Gold Star Tele-electric", probably from the 70s, maybe 80s (though I doubt it).

The phone system in place began dropping accessible extensions(ie, it no longer allows us to get a dial tone from these jacks). I checked the wires, and everything looks fine (ie, I can trace them using a tone and probe, signal strength seems to be sufficient), checked the obvious stuff (all the cables are connected in the proper order, fuses on the pbx are all fine, phone works on a different jack), but still it won't work. There is no manual, and the technician that came out to see if he could fix it just kinda shook his head and suggested a new system

So now I'm pricing phone systems. Their requirements are extremely basic:
- 10 extensions
- 6-8 outgoing lines (max, may drop them to 2-3 lines 10 months of the year)
- voice mail
- night ringer to drop everything to receptionist's voice mail


That's basically it. The current system is I suppose a KTS, and I would like to keep whatever is put in place as simple as possible. There is no need to have much upgrade potential, as they are only minimally using what they have in place, and the group will never increase in size. They use the office for phone canvassing during elections, but other than that there are 2 people in the office full time.

One company I was talking to suggested a Nortel BCM 50 setup, but due to the simplicity of the office's requirements, I thought that might be overkill. (also, the cost to have it installed was a little more than double what they were willing to spend.)

So, finally, my questions:

Is replacing the system they have in place something, as a technically inclined but non-trained pbx installer, I can do for them? (as a note, I've done computer network administration for a few years, it can't be too different from that, can it?)

Would the BCM50 be recommended? By ordering it online, I can get everything they need for about $5000 cheaper than the installer quoted. There will be no cable running necessary.

Can you recommend any other systems that would service their very basic needs, that might be easier to set up or will prove more reliable than the BCM 50?

I thank you folks for any insight, I've been bashing my head against walls trying to figure this one out for a couple weeks now. Mostly because of the "artistic" wiring that was put into place. I have pictures, oh, yes, I have pictures. (if anyone wants to cry over a poor wiring job, let me know, I can post some of them)

/Bob
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Norstar CICS is a nice little thing..
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hey Bob, what is the local network like in the office?

I guess pretty much any system you go with is going to take some time to learn to program it.

Personally, I dig opensource, I don't want to step on anyone's toes but setting up 10 sip phones and about 5 analog lines is pretty simple with Trixbox. Trixbox has built in voicemail that is web accessible.It comes with an auto attendant and directory. You can set up ring groups, like ring these 5 extensions for "sales" etc...
Time of day routing and schedules...ACD and a primitive call accounting package built in.
And there are a lot of add ons you can download and install.

What you will need:

1. A PC - Ebay special for about ($300-$600)

2. Maybe one of these from our classifieds section
One of our Members is selling them from there.
OpenVox A1200P -- 1 PCI, 12 port FXS/FXO
  • A1200P is a modular analog telephony product up to 12 port.
  • Each port of A1200P can be configured as FXO or FXS via install FXO100 or FXS100 module. Because it use the same module as A400P (TDM400P as well), It is a excellent choice when upgrade your old system to higher density without lose the investment on your old hardware.
3. Some Cool Sip Phones.
See this post: http://www.pbxinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18990
Either Polycom, Cisco, Grandstream or others


or
http://www.pbxinfo.com/forums/attach...6&d=1153624278


4. Trixbox software (Free) and Access to the trixbox forums incase you run into any difficulty and you could be up and running for well under 5K.

Cautions:
1. Trixbox is limited, the GUI pbx manager is great but Asterisk has a lot it can do that Trixbox doesn't really let you capitalize on. Its an easy way to get started but if you need to get indepth it would be better to learn Asterisk.

2. PC recommendation- I have heard some people not run asterisk on anything less then a full server with multiple cores and redudant power supplies. They do this for obvious reasons to ensure uptime. Keep this in mind when you are looking for a PC.

3. Battery Backup. I would say you might want to invest in a battery back up unit for the pbx and network switches. if you have POE- then a power outage shouldn't affect the phone system much.

The good thing about asterisk/trixbox is you can try it out in your place before committing to spend a lot of money on hardware.

Get an old PC. load the ISO image of Trixbox. buy a dual or quad FXO/FXS adapter, a couple of SIP Phones you like and try it out first. Get it to do what you think you want it to do. If its too much trouble your not out 5K and no phone system. If it isn't then you invest in upgrading hardware backend and you already know how to set it up.

Just my .02...
Good Luck!
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Last edited by rixride; 09-20-2006 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixride
Hey Bob, what is the local network like in the office?

I guess pretty much any system you go with is going to take some time to learn to program it.

Personally, I dig opensource, I don't want to step on anyone's toes but setting up 10 sip phones and about 5 analog lines is pretty simple with Trixbox. Trixbox has built in voicemail that is web accessible.It comes with an auto attendant and directory. You can set up ring groups, like ring these 5 extensions for "sales" etc...
Time of day routing and schedules...ACD and a primitive call accounting package built in.
And there are a lot of add ons you can download and install.
Cautions:
1. Trixbox is limited, the GUI pbx manager is great but Asterisk has a lot it can do that Trixbox doesn't really let you capitalize on. Its an easy way to get started but if you need to get indepth it would be better to learn Asterisk.

2. PC recommendation- I have heard some people not run asterisk on anything less then a full server with multiple cores and redudant power supplies. They do this for obvious reasons to ensure uptime. Keep this in mind when you are looking for a PC.

3. Battery Backup. I would say you might want to invest in a battery back up unit for the pbx and network switches. if you have POE- then a power outage shouldn't affect the phone system much.

The good thing about asterisk/trixbox is you can try it out in your place before committing to spend a lot of money on hardware.

Get an old PC. load the ISO image of Trixbox. buy a dual or quad FXO/FXS adapter, a couple of SIP Phones you like and try it out first. Get it to do what you think you want it to do. If its too much trouble your not out 5K and no phone system. If it isn't then you invest in upgrading hardware backend and you already know how to set it up.

Just my .02...
Good Luck!

Unfortunately, the local network is almost non-existent, due to the fact that cable running is completely impossible--soffet is completely sealed, and the wiring job is... ahem... interesting. 10 phones. 450-500 wires punched down, some of which I can't trace back, well, anywhere. 25 pair cables (I'd never seen them before) running to wall jacks. Some installed wall jacks not even running to the phone closet. They have wireless ethernet as the only possible way to get connectivity throughout the office. Not what I would prefer, but it works.

I looked into voip using asterisk, but because I don't want to baby the system, I decided I should probably give it a miss. I much prefer open source software when I plan on being an integral part of it (I'm a programmer, if it don't work, I fix it.), but since as soon as this gets installed and everything is working, I'm running, screaming, away from this place, I want something that someone else should be able to figure out relatively quickly.

Though now that you mention it, I did want to give asterisk a try, I think I'm gonna grab a telephony card and a couple phones to play with...

I would be rich now if it weren't for toys, what can I say?

Thanks for the input, but I'm pretty much stuck with a hardware system (and they will be happier to pay for a hardware system than a software system that it takes me 3 days to set up.)

/Bob
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Old 09-19-2006, 06:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java_Bob
Norstar CICS is a nice little thing..
That was actually on another quote I received, and is more in-line with what they are willing to spend (well, what I'm willing to allow them to spend, I suppose, again, simple requirements should only require a simple system)

Is there any reason I wouldn't want one of those? Other than having to hook in a secondary system for voicemail?

I would assume these all come with some sort of install guide, so I'm not too worried about installation, more of a downtime concern than anything else

thanks =)
/Bob
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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25 pair cables (I'd never seen them before) running to wall jacks.
sounds like an old A1A or something similar, nice in the day

I have a CICS thats laying around, will have to see if its on any records and if it is I could still get it to you cheap with all the install and programming guides.

It has a built in auto attendant, no voice mail though. PM if you want to talk about it. Theres no reason you couldn't use those 25 pair cables either, just pick a pair to use.

Ricks idea is cool too, let us know.
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheMighty
That was actually on another quote I received, and is more in-line with what they are willing to spend (well, what I'm willing to allow them to spend, I suppose, again, simple requirements should only require a simple system)

Is there any reason I wouldn't want one of those? Other than having to hook in a secondary system for voicemail?

I would assume these all come with some sort of install guide, so I'm not too worried about installation, more of a downtime concern than anything else

thanks =)
/Bob
Bob,

Just a quick thought. What is your budget for the project? Depending on whomever you listen to, the top 4 Key System Sellers are (In alphabetical order) Avaya, NEC, Nortel, and Panasonc. Of those systems, if you are looking for an attractive price, check out the Panasonic and NEC. Panasonic small end systems are attractively priced, if you grab a TA-824 package and the TDA-100 can be competitive to tie CICS or Partner ACS.

If you're willing to take a small chance, the NEC DSX-80 comes in as an 8x16 which you can add integrated Voice Mail to (Auto Attendant is built in) for less than $1500 retail plus the price of the phones at $140-180 retail.

Carl Navarro
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There is one other option that makes it a simple to maintain system. You could try Centrex from your local phone company. That is a KTS and would probably keep learning to a minimum. Plus all the programming is done by the telco, this is a downside if you need something done in a hurry.

Installation should be cheap but I don't know if the monthly charges and service charges for making changes will be worth it. I am a PBX guy myself so my usual interface with Centrex has been replacing it with a PBX, but it is still a popular service. About half the hospitals where I live have it and would not change.
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnavarro
Bob,

Just a quick thought. What is your budget for the project? Depending on whomever you listen to, the top 4 Key System Sellers are (In alphabetical order) Avaya, NEC, Nortel, and Panasonc. Of those systems, if you are looking for an attractive price, check out the Panasonic and NEC. Panasonic small end systems are attractively priced, if you grab a TA-824 package and the TDA-100 can be competitive to tie CICS or Partner ACS.

If you're willing to take a small chance, the NEC DSX-80 comes in as an 8x16 which you can add integrated Voice Mail to (Auto Attendant is built in) for less than $1500 retail plus the price of the phones at $140-180 retail.

Carl Navarro
Thanks for your suggestion, Carl.

I fell into my standard "I don't run a business, these prices are outrageous" mindset when I started looking at them. They asked for a couple suggestions, so I suggested the two I had done some research on at the time, the norstar CICS and the BCM50 system... I told them, "frankly, the BCM is too much system for what you're using right now, you'd be better off with the smaller, cheaper system"...

And I bet you can guess which one is in my living room right now...

So, uh, anyone have advice on installing a nortel BCM50? =)

/Bob
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSYoung
There is one other option that makes it a simple to maintain system. You could try Centrex from your local phone company. That is a KTS and would probably keep learning to a minimum. Plus all the programming is done by the telco, this is a downside if you need something done in a hurry.

Installation should be cheap but I don't know if the monthly charges and service charges for making changes will be worth it. I am a PBX guy myself so my usual interface with Centrex has been replacing it with a PBX, but it is still a popular service. About half the hospitals where I live have it and would not change.
The telco either didn't understand when I asked about it, or played dumb... either way, they wouldn't give me a quote, and a quote I got online from some offsite pbx vendor came out to about an extra $150/mo, meaning even with the system they put in place, in 2 years we'll have the hardware, and no extra phone bill.

/Bob
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