sillejo

wow that is quite the request......

So let's start with some bullet points.

CM 4.1.3 and CM 5.0 have all the same feature sets but 5.0 is a Linux based box with no access to the kernal, just a CLI with Ciscolike commands (sh, set, config, etc.) 5.0 also has bigger suppot for SIP and Presence

CM 4.2 has more features than 4.1.3 and is basically an upgrade still running on Windows 2k

You used to hack a registry to make the CD's think you had approved platform, not sure if that is still true in the 4.1.3 CD's Best option is to run it in VMware (Eitehr Workstation or on a server with ESX/GSX dependig on what you can get your hands on to image it)

pricing?? it sounds like you are setting up a lab not buying it. If you are buying it, then you don't want to go into production without SmartNet and that eliminates the VMWare/laptop question because it is not supported.

Getting away from HP/IBM boxes. I don't think they let you do that anymore. Dell killed the relationship when they started to make switches. You can provide your own HPIBM servers but it still has to be certain approved models. At least you don't need the silly green faceplates of the Cisco branded boxes.

Experience -
since it's inception in '98 as Selsius right when Cisco bouht them.

So whaplans do you have? What's strategy? Where are you coming from to IP Tel?

__________________
Deus ex machina

globalview

Hello sillejo

Thank you for replying and giving me some pointers with regards to the CCM v4.1.3 product in question.

Regarding my plans, strategy and direction pertaining to the CCM v4.1.3 product......well.....i'd like to start off by saying i am completely new to IP
telephony and i have never used any previous versions of any Ip solutions from any manufacturer before.

I can see the really powerful features and benefits of ip telephoney in a business environment.....there is just so much advanced capability here that i had simply never given a second thought to ....out of sheer ignorance. I did not know anything about IP telephony...that's the truth of it!!

The CCM v4.1.3 was chosen by default as it is and was the version i could my hands on. You would be correct to say that the intention is to operate a lab environment to get a 'feel' for the product.

I had asked the pricing information as i still don't know what it retails at - the CCM v4.1.3 CD 1&2 (i assume is it just these two cds....???) and the IP Communicator 2.0 - this information gives me a better idea of the costs involved were i to buy this if i liked the lab setup.

Please tell me.....is there an 'upgrade' patch or the like for v4.1.3 to 4.2?

Also .....i am correct to think that ...that the IP Communicator 2.0 software and the Cisco CallManager v4.1.3 product is the 'core' needed to set up a lab. If not, please tell us what is and how.

Also ...please tell me....i am aware that in ccm v3.3...you have things like IP Telephony server v3.3, AutoAttendant 3.3, IPCC IVR 3.5 and CMM 3.3
Exntender....am i correct to think that....all these add on and features in v3.3 are already incoporated in the two CCM v4.1.3 CDs???

That the CCM v3.3 Installation & Recovery Cd....is also incorporated in v4.1.3????

I had wanted to know also how well rated this CallManager v4.1.3 product was both in its own right and against other comparative prodcuts. In a word....is it any good or not and pending a yes or no to either of these questions.....then why?

Please tell me....when you perform the registry hack to make the CD's think you had approved platform,....in effect....the pc or laptop on which the CallManager v4.1.3 is installed ...then acts as if it were the approved IBM/COMPAQ Hardware server.....for this reason this hack therefore does away with the HP/IBM boxes?? Do i need a router for example?? What one???

What is SmartNet???

I apologise for all these seemingly silly questions. Please forgive me for my ignorance in this subject to those of you who understand and know much more about this area than i do.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards


globalview

sillejo

Just to make sure your bounds are correct, CM 4.x is not a small office solution.

CM 4.1.3 is 2 disks for just CM. There are around 5-8 Disks for English only, including the IPCC Express (5 agents only), Auto Attendant (4 ports), and TAPS (tool for autoregistration phone support) Both AA and TAPS need the Extended Services CD or the IPCC CD's to be installed first.

If you only have the CM 4.1.3 CD's then you do not have OS Win2k, SQL, AA, TAPS, or IPCC

IP Comm is downloadable and has a system load cost just higher than a normal phone. So when you see that CM can handle x thousands of devices, that is what they mean (total devices + device cost = system load)

In a lab you will need a CM server, an IP Phone and a switch. Or IP Comm and a switch. They can run in the same broadcast domain without a router. DHCP can be run from the server as well as TFTP

__________________
Deus ex machina

globalview

Hello Sillejo

Thank you for your further explanations regarding the cisco callmanager 4.1.3 product. You have wised me up a bit more about the cisco callmanager v4.1.3 product and i am grateful for this.

I'd like to add one or two things here .....please either correct me if i understand wrong or confirm that my understanding is correct as per sei your last message on this.

Regarding the cisco callmanager cds v3.3 i have for this product version the following cds for it or that which i can get hold of if the need arises to do so:

*cisco callmanager auto attendant v3.3

*cisco callmanager installation & recovery cd v3.3 (i am not sure if this is the same as a 'normal' ccm v3.3???)

*cisco callmanager win-os-upgrade-k9.2000-2-7

*cisco IP Telephony Server 3.3 cd (is this 'server' the same as the cisco callmanager v3.3 cds????)

*a 'pure' copy of microsoft windows 2000 server (to use for both either versions of 3.3 or 4.1.3 where need be)

*a copy of microsoft sql is within my reach...which version are we taking about here???

*cisco callmanager 3.3.3 extension mobility cd (is this the 'extended services cd' you were talking about???)

*cisco ipcc CRS CRA IVR 3.5.2 (is this the same as the 'IPCC Express' you were talking about???)

*cisco callmanager 4.1 updated fix 05-2006

*cisco network assistant v4.0 (most probably unconnected to the CCM product group...not too sure though????)

cisco callmanager versions 4.0, 4.1, 4.1.2 and 4.1.3 (i have mentioned ccm v4.1.3 as it is the latest version i could get hold of) and callmanager express v1.0 are all within my reach which i could get hold of.

What is the difference between CCME and CCM???? Which is 'better' or 'newer' ???

I suspect callmanager v3.3 i should get hold of..i don't know if this is the same as the one branded 'cisco callmanager installation and recovery cd v3.3'

Of all the versions that i have.....CCM v3.x....is the version i think i have the most possible complete set as listed above in line with the 5-8 cds you have mentioned as being in the complete english version. Are all of the 5-8 cds essential??? Is TAPS & IPCC Express....essential...unless they are listed above under abbreviation....i won't have these.

What is the cisco ip telephony server v3.3 cd for???? This is not TAPS by any chance is it???? I am sure this is not a CCM v3.3...but maybe you know better????

This is the only real reason there would be for me to go down from version CCM 4.1.3 to look for version v3.3 would be because of all the other v3x products i have got. can all these ccm v3.x products work with the ccm v4.1.3 product???? If not...i'd have to stick to CCM v3.3 as this is the closest i have to a complete cd set as mentioned by you.

So in essence.....regarding the above list....which mainly refers to the ccm v3x product version......do you think i have the complete set now??? You say 5-8 cds....well as i 'get it'..they can only be as follows:
1. cisco callmanager v3.x or v4.x [2 CDs]
2. microsoft windows server 2000 [1 CD]
3. cisco callmanager auto attendant v3.3 [1 CD]
4. microsoft SQL [1 CD]
5. cisco callmanager extension mobility v3.3.3 cd [1 CD]
6. .....i count 6 CDs at this point.....i take it cisco callmanager express would be another 1 cd making that 7....i guess the final one would be the TAPS CD...making that the 8 you were talking about???

i don't think i have anything under 'cisco ipcc express'....unless it is that cisco ipcc crs cra ivr v3.5.2 mentioned above???

the same is said for the 'cisco callmanager extended services' cd....unless it is that cisco callmanager v3.3.3 extension mobility cd mentioned above??? would this extension mobility cd v3.3.3 work on ccm v4.1.3???

I obviously have the cisco callmanager auto attendant v3.3 cd....question is....would this work on ccm v4.1.3???

Where you say ...'Both AA and TAPS need the Extended Services CD or the IPCC CD's to be installed first'....do you imply to mean that i need BOTH the 'Exended Services Cd' AND 'IPCC CD's'.....OR EITHER one of them....installed BEFORE the AA & TAPS CDs.....please clarify this for me.

Again..where you say...'In a lab you will need a CM server, an IP Phone and a switch. Or IP Comm and a switch. ....if i have the CCM cds (Which i do of v4.1.3 and earlier as mentioned in this text...this must be the CM server you are talking about..Or the Cisco IP telephony Server v3.3 CD???), an IP communicator softphone (Which i do of version v2.0 ).....and a 'switch' (please elaborate on the 'switch' for me)...then a lab is possible???

summarily...what is/would be the cost of all these 5-8 cds you have mentioned ???? I bet it is very, very, very dear....try me and give me a figure here.....

Finally To recap...

i have the CM 4.1.3 CD's, the OS Win2k, the SQL (Which version???), AA (version 3.3)....not too sure about this 'TAPS' , or 'IPCC Express' either......do you think i could be up and running barring the TAPS or IPCC CDs???? Or run all the CCM version 3.x under the two CCM v4.1.3 CDs???? Please tell me more about this cisco ip telephony server v3.3...

Please forgive me if i have confused you in any way by this lengthy expose here......

I look forward to your reply to this. If i have further information....i will let you know.

Regards


globalview

_

sillejo

well, that is a lot of questions and issues.

I wonder if you would not be better served by a link to explain all the different parts of Cisco IP Tel. The 3.3 version is several years old and it is a bit tedious to match up all the names of things from 3 years ago to what they are now called.

Do you have a CCO account? This will help you get to the "Compatability Matrix" which will lay out al the verions that work together. Neeless to say most older versions of the features do not work with newer versions of the core software so if you upgrade CallManager from 3.3 to 4.1.x then you will need the newer versions of everything else. The older versions will not run very well on new CM software.

To get a phone up and place calls between IP phones you need:
1 CM server (CM needs SQL and is built with it on the box from the Installation CD"s)
1 Switch (networking switch like a catalyst 2900)
2 IP Phones (either actuall phones or 2 IP Comm's on laptops)
Working network connectivity between the phones and the server
All the rest of it (AA, TAPS, CRA and it's upgrade IPCC, Extension Mobility, etc.) are all just features. So until you get CM up and a phone registered, don't worry about them, you can add them later and right now I think you are focusing on the wrong stuff.

Build a server, install CM, whatever version you can, and put it on a network with 2 laptops, then install IP Comm on the laptops and go into the preferences to tell it the IP address of the server (TFTP server and Call Processing server, which are both the CM IP address)

Once you have that up you should be able to place a call between the IP comms.

So, CM does not like Win2k server in it's native form which is why the build CDs are necessary. They build Win2k server and rip out a bunch of apps and services that conflict with CM. The Windows updates you list are Cisco provided and will not run very well on a base Win2k install from MS cd's. They may not run at all. SQL is also installed from the build CD's so no worries there

The Build CD's does not install CM, just the OS and SQL and DC Directory (when you install CM you can hook it to an AD if there is one available but DC Directory will still be installed) The CD is called "Installation and Recovery" in version 3.3
CM is on the "IP Telephony server" CD


Difference between CME and CM
CME runs on a router and is IOS based
CM runs on a server.

CME is for small remote offices
CM is for the Enterprise

CME and CM are distinct products, they do not look or feel anything alike. One is not better than the other because they are intended for different audiences.

Price - I believe CM without any hardware retails in teh US for $8k (I don't know what it is in pounds or euros)
IP Comm is a license of $100
Phones are between $150 and $500 (for wifi)


CME is a software featureset for the 2800 and 3800 series routers and would vary depending on what else you need for featuresets

__________________
Deus ex machina